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June 30, 2007
Let's Be
Friends
Dan @6:18am
I must take this time to
let everyone know that the forum on this web site was put there so
that everyone could chime in with each other and talk freely about
any aspect of ventriloquism. Of course building figures is one of
them and selling of figures is one of them.
I must caution that when a statement is made against any one person
that could possibly infringe on his integrity or lively hood that is
called slander and can ultimately become a crime which is
prosecutable in the court system. My full time job is that of a
Constable so I am in the court system every day and this is fact.
The threads that have been on the forum section of the web site this
past week were great but called people out on the carpet and were
just a bit slanderous and I had to publicly say, I myself have
trouble with this sort of behavior and will not let this happen
again. I will pull any type of thread that starts, that calls out
anyone named in the vent community if it is of a negative nature.
Especially if it is on another site such as eBay. EBay has their own
system for asking questions of a seller so in the future lets not do
it here on ventriloquist central. Do it there where it is not a
public forum or just email the person directly and give him or her
your thoughts.
I want to keep this site a great place for all to come and share and
enjoy the wonderful art of ventriloquism. This is a very small
community and everyone knows everyone else and there is no need to
have this type of argument in the open. I do hope I have made myself
clear and would love any comments that would be of a corrective
nature for us all to follow.
Comments......
Dan
Comments
5 Comments > > >
-
Hi, Very useful resource. THE
BEST. I liked your site. Thanks.
Comments by TimonRedyn - June 30, 2007
@2:22pm
-
Good for you, Dan! That will
keep the VC Forum a more enjoyable place to visit.
Comments by Smith & Jones - June 30,
2007 @ 2:18pm
-
Sounds great Dan.
Comments by Christian Morse - June 30,
2007 @11:53am
-
Dan, Thank you for not
allowing this site to become a place for personal complaints and
negative gossip. Thanks for keeping the site on purpose.
Comments by Joe Lopez - June 30, 2007
@9:52am
-
I could not agree more. This
needs to be kept a positive environment to share thoughts and ideas
in a constructive manner for the greater good in the vent community.
Comments by Larry Harris/ComicVent
- June 30, 2007 @8:10am
June 27, 2007
Christian
Morse McElroy Conversion
Dan @3:28pm
Christian Morse is on the
front line of the conversion game and has kindly sent in his picture
of his first attempt at conversion of a Juro toy into a McElroy. Now
everyone please remember that Christian is 12 years old and has a
limited work base to go from but his conceptual idea is there for
you all to see. I am very proud of him and his efforts and I wanted
to share this with you all. He tried to post the picture on the
forum but was unsuccessful so I decided to do this for him on the
blog. Please make all the corrective comments for Christian.
Christian Morse McElroy Conversion
Click Picture For Larger View |
Comments...........
Dan
Comments
5 Comments > > >
-
Hey I redid
him and he's got a typewriter like thing so he's got a little more
like the McElroys
Comments by Christian Morse -
June 28, 2007 @8:17pm
-
Hey thanks you
guys but I generally dont mess up typewriters i use clothes hangers
which are very close to Glenn's complex controls and i have about 29
wood chisels and I carve on lots of wood that I use from the trees
around my house I don't have a lot to work with but I have a lot of
fun making them and I would sell my McElroy conversion for about
$50.00 so if anyone is interested contact Dan for email address and
stuff lots of luck to all of you.
Comments by Christian Morse -
June 28, 2007 @2:42pm
-
Great start!!
I could never do that. You are going to go far in the vent world. I
can see it already.
Comments by Larry Harris -
ComicVent - June 28, 2007 @8:15am
-
Christian, I
think it is safe to say that the greatest of intentions always
produce the greatest of inventions! I am amazed at your drive and
ambition at such a young age with regards to ventriloquism.
Keep it up and I agree with Lee--you need some keys now.
Comments by Ken Souza - June 27,
2007 @10:20pm
-
Needs
typewriter keys next.
Comments by Lee Dean - June 27,
2007 @8:34pm
June 25, 2007
From
Johnny Hopman
Thanks Dan for all the
stuff you do on your website etc.
One of the differences is that since I am in the entertainment
business and also make my living selling promotional products as per
your T. Shirts and other things I have noticed the difference.
You keep thing fresh, up to date, and certainly do not have stagnent
waters. Its a refreshing mountain stream, a shower of goodness
pertaining to ventriloquism. Well I have had my shower.
Thanks Again.
Johnny Hopman
Comments
0 Comments > > >
Guest Blog
- Chuck & Dante
Spending
The Day With A Living Legend
Hey Dan,
I just had, what had to be, the most exciting day of my Vent
carrier.
Bob (Abdou) had arranged a show for a group of special needs people
at a church located in San Antonio. Bob invited fellow Vents David
Pitts and myself to participate. He later informed me that after the
show we were going to have lunch with Peter Rich. I was really
excited, we had discussed Peter in the past.
Fast Forward this morning 8:30 a.m. in route to show, I was informed
that not only were we going to have lunch with Peter, but that Peter
was going to attend the show. And that after lunch, we were going to
spend a few minutes with him at his home.
The show was a lot of fun. Bob opened, I was second, David was
third, then Bob came back on and did two more acts. The audience was
truly spectacular! The laughed at all our corny jokes. I even tried
a few really extra corny ones, an got some moans! David came out
with his figure Henry, (David made Henry from a Mike Brose's kit).
Henry and David had a "who's funnier" contest were they each took
turns telling knock-knock-jokes to see which of them was the
funniest. The crowd really loved this and chimed in with a few of
there own. If anyone is interested I will post my part and, if he
doesn't mind, David's at
www.youtube.com/chuckanddante . I will have them up sometime
next week.
After the show, we packed up the van's and headed to Luby's for
lunch! (let's hear it for Luby's!!!) Peter is a great joy to be
around. We spent about an hour chatting about his career. He filled
us in on some of the clubs he played, his time in the service
entertaining the troops. He even dropped some name big names like
Frank Sinatra Jr. and Minnie Pearl.
After lunch we headed over to his home. He first showed us his scrap
book of twenty years of working cruise ships. He said that as well
as entertaining with his Vent shows, he also worked part time as the
assistant Cruise Director. His second scrap book contained
memorabilia from his Vent career. It contained items like photos and
autographs of big name Vents he knows. Show programs, letters from
Frank Marshall, and even a few letters from Edgar and Charlie.
After sharing his scrap books, Peter pulled out "Raw Hide". Raw Hide
is his Marshall figure that he has performed with for over fifty
years! Pete did some off-the-cuff stuff with Raw Hide that had us
all laughing our butts off!
Pete was kind enough to allow David and Myself a chance to "try out"
Raw Hide and take some pics with him. We all then took out our
figures and had a really great photo shoot. One photo, which I call
a three generation photo, is of the four of us with our figures. It
shows a living legend, a current pro, and two aspiring Vents.
I found Pete to be a gracious man. He is full of life and filled
with a spirit that rivals any person half his age. He is quick
witted and fast with a come back. He is a great guy to be around.
I wanted to share this story with you and your readers. I enjoy your
web site very much. I plan to wear my ventriloquistcentral.com
t-shirt on open mic night at the ConVention.
Take care,
Chuck & Dante
Comments
1 Comment > > >
- That's a great Blog. The
pictures are great.
Comments by Larry Harris -
ComicVent - June 26, 2007 @6:58pm
June 24, 2007
From Ken
Souza - California
Thanks again, Dan. And I
really cannot thank you enough for what you have done for this art
by both you and Steve putting together this long over due site! You
should be very proud; this site is a perfect answer to the extinct
Oracles and the like.
Keep up the great work and I look forward to speaking with you again
soon.
Regards,
Ken Souza
Comments
0 Comments > > >
June 20, 2007
Guest Blog
- Bill DeMar
To Buy
or Not To Buy......
With the convention less
than a month away, there will be some newbies, first-timers,
beginners, wanting to buy a ventriloquist figure. Before you spend
your hard earned cash, here are some ideas so you don’t end up
selling or trading that same figure later.
Now you can look at all the dealers figures and get prices and say,
well, I've only got this much money so I'll buy this one.
This is the WRONG way of going about it. One should have the
character in mind BEFORE they look.
FIRST....you need 'the voice', then the personality/character,
also/maybe/possibly, type of speech/accent. At what speed will the
figure speak? Slow? Fast? Normal?
Will the voice and personality fit the face? The figure suited for
you may not be at the convention. Can you make some kind of drawing?
Try different voices/ways of speaking, maybe your first thought is
not the best.
How many ways and voices can you come up with? Experiment. You may
need more money to get the figure that fits you. One that should
stay with you from now on.
Bottom line, be prepared with this type of information so you don’t
make a mistake and end up with a figure you really don’t want.
Other pros out there may have some additional thoughts on this.
Bill DeMar
Comments
1 Comment > > >
-
Amen, Uncle Bill!
All you have to do is look on EBay. There are lots of figures
available that were bought on impulse, or before the character was
established.
And now they are "personality-deprived orphans."
Comments by Pete Michaels - June
20, 2007 @9:17am
June 17,
2007
More Comments
-
What Constitutes A Master Builder?
Dan @5:57pm
I guess “What
Constitutes A Master Builder” is making the rounds. Not only
have the comments been pouring in here at Ventriloquist Central, Al
Stevens has weighed in with his take on this subject. He’s made some
nice observations which you can read on his blog……click
here for Al’s Blog.
Thanks, Al.
Comments welcomed.
~Dan
Comments
3 Comments > > >
-
The old saying, "One man's
meat is another man's poison," certainly holds true in the realm of
preferences in vent figures. My personal preference is to first
define the character and then decide how much realism to put into
the construction. Some figures look better with glass eyes (Mortimer
Snerd) while some are more effective with Teddy Bear like irises
(Charlie McCarthy and Jerry Mahoney). The real trick is to get just
the right blend of realism and fantasy that will create the most
charm in the figure.
Comments by Ray Guyll - June 18, 2007
@4:20pm
-
Al has a treasure trove of
observations on his blog. This is a magnificent piece.
Comments by Larry Harris - ComicVent -
June 18, 2007 @2:15pm
-
I really enjoyed Al Stevens'
comments in the latest blog. I agree 100% with all that he said
about the current top makers. He asked a question re: where Frank
Marshall got the wooden spheres that he used for the dolls' eyes. I
believe I have the answer, which was told to me over 40 years ago.
Back before the days of video games, kids in Australia, and I'm sure
in USA played a game called 'bobs.' This involved putting a rug or
blanket on the kitchen or dining room table. At one end, you had a
wooden
strip- height 3 inches, width 1/2 an inch, and the length was the
width of the table. Cut into the timber were approx. 10 holes in the
shape of arches and numbered 1-10. At the other end of the table you
had a series of balls and a cue stick. The object was to hit the
ball with the stick and endeavor to have it roll through one of the
arches. After your series of shots you would tally up the number
scored- the highest score winning.
Before the days of the common use of plastic these balls were wooden
and the same size as the Marshall eyeball. I was told years ago that
Frank Marshall purchased his 'eyeballs' from the manufactures of the
'bobs' game. This may be true, but I can't confirm it.
Comments by Colin - Comic Quest
- June 18, 2007 @6:55am
June 16, 2007
Frank
Marshall Animals
Dan @8:38am
My acquisition of Chubby
Cub started me to think about the other animals that were made by
Frank Marshall. I know of a few and they are, Farfel the dog and
Ftatateeta the cat both owned by Jimmy Nelson, the Kangaroos and
joeys made for Clifford Guest and now Chubby Cub made for Lee Dean.
So that makes four animals that I know of at this moment.
Can any of you tell us about any other furry friends that were made
by the Master Frank Marshall? Please write in and let us all know.
Comments......
~Dan
Comments
2 Comments > > >
-
I am on the fence on this one.
I guess I just enjoy Marshall's other work too much.
Comments by Larry Harris - ComicVent -
June 17, 2007 @11:28am
-
(What Constitutes A Master
Builder?) An interesting question, always difficult to
define. First, there's the artistic aspects - paint, carving, and
mechanics. Then, these have to come together to create that elusive
thing called personality. But then there's that whole other side
that is often neglected - the business side. Dealing with customers
in a professional, courteous way, delivering in a timely manner, and
not acting like a flaky, eccentric artist. So, if you want to
combine all these qualities together, the master to me was Jack
Coats. Created gems, and was a gem of a man.
Comments by Bob Gordon - June 17, 2007
@8:28am
-
(What Constitutes A Master
Builder?) Thank you for your emails and all the information you
are providing on blog which I check everyday. I'm not familiar with
the site tribute to ventriloquism which you refer to. Is there some
opposition to what you are doing? If so don't take any notice, your
site and information are fantastic. Now to some of the things that
have been on blog recently. I was born in December 1941 and as
a young 15 year old, learnt ventriloquism from Ron Blaskett. So my
first real introduction to vent work and vent dolls was with Ron and
Frank Marshall's great creation of Gerry Gee. Therefore the question
I often ask myself is- if Ron was starting now, with one of Ray
Guyll's wonderful dolls and I was 15 again would I be interested in
the Marshall figures? So when it comes to considering master
builders in my opinion (and remember I realize this is only my
opinion) certain circumstances have to be considered. It is a known
fact that Frank Marshall was not keen in making dolls with multiple
movements, this restricted the character which he was able to carve
into the face. So we have to ask ourselves when we are considering a
master builder is it from the collectors point of view or the
working ventriloquist? The collector can have fun pulling all the
levers but when it comes to doing a show with the levers that
Marshall used, it could become quite awkward. In fact many
professional vents got rid of the bulky levers for a more refined
type. I know this might horrify you as the doll is not then
original. But if it was easy to manipulate and then easier to bring
to life, then the vent went for this as this was obviously the aim.
So another question arises - if Marshall was working today, would he
stick to the same bulky levers or go to the more refined type? There
is certainly no problem for Bergen and company with only one or
perhaps two levers to operate. I know for a fact having used an
Insul doll for 50 years and then going to a Marshall was like going
from a sports car to an army tank. Now this is where I must be
careful, because many will say that with more practice and more
effort I would become more skilled and that is true. But my argument
is if the operating levers were the best on the Marshall dolls then
they would be used today. Now having said all of this Dan, you know
I still put Frank Marshall at the top and was in my opinion the
pioneer of it all. So in no way do I want to be critical of his
work. This is just another aspect to consider and who am I to say I
am correct?
With regard to the paint that Marshall used, Ron told me that he was
told years ago that plaster was used with the paint, but agrees that
also the stipple finish added another dimension. My full size
Marshall has moving eyes, cross eyes, top lip, eyebrows and two
winks. All with original levers, which I would never change. Over 50
years ago Ron had Gerry changed to more refined levers and I must
admit he was so much easier to operate.
Comments by Colin - Comic Quest
- June 17, 2007 @ 2:34am
June 15, 2007
A Rare
Marshall Animal Figure
Dan @10:30pm
My latest acquisition is a
rare animal figure made by Frank Marshall. It's a bear and his
name is "Chubby Cub".
Check out his story and the
pictures.......
Click Here For More Information
Comments.....
~Dan
Comments
0 Comments > > >
June 14, 2007
What
Constitutes A Master Builder?
Dan @6:00am
Sitting and thinking I
started to ponder about what constitutes a MASTER figure builder. I
myself will always consider that Frank Marshall was a Master builder
and The brothers McElroy together made a Master builder but what is
the criteria to give them this title?
In today's world we have a few makers that build some pretty darn
nice figures but would they be considered Master builders? In my
opinion a Master builder would have to do everything starting right
from scratch , every aspect of the whole creation process. If any
step was not done by that person or I guess I should say in house
,as there may be partners, would that mean they weren't master
builders?
I would love to hear you thoughts on this subject.
Comments.......
~Dan
Comments
11 Comments > > >
-
Well yes the McElroys are
great builders too but Ray pays a great deal of attention you got to
remember they're both very different and the same I'll say a lot
about McElroys but I would never ever knock Ray to the McElroys
they're both great but they're from different times. Thanks for
sparking this great topic.
Comments by Christian Morse - June 15,
2007 @3:23pm
-
What makes a master builder?
The quality and features of the vent dummies they make. That is what
makes them masters. The McElroy brothers were good, because they
paid attention to detail.
Comments by Austin Spraker - June 15,
2007 @1:49pm
-
Well yes I think Ray Guyll is
one of the best figure makers ever I mean he's a master of building
figures look at Happy i mean top notch work he is a mechanical
genius although I don't own a figure from him I think it's amazing.
Awesome work on McElroys Marshalls and etc. great work Ray.
Comments by Christian Morse - June 15,
2007 @8:16am
-
There is allot of great
builders out there. I would have to say that Ray Guyll is a great
master builder. And can duplicate any figure that was ever made. And
do it right. I think Dan can verify that.
Comments by Chef Jim - June 15, 2007
@6:19am
-
I like the way Frank Marshall
painted he's figures, some better than others of course. I notice
that a really good Marshall figure has a presence about it. There's
just something about them. Regarding paint, I remember Johnny Main,
Bob King and maybe even Bob Isaacson saying Frank used pumice along
with spilling to create he's interesting famous affect.
Comments by Joe Lopez - June 14, 2007
@8:06pm
-
I THINK THAT CONRAD HARTZ
SHOULD BE ON THE LIST OF MASTER CARVERS
Comments by DOC LOWERY - June 14, 2007
@3:31pm
-
It is wonderful to learn I am
a master builder. I have built figures soft and hard from scratch
and so under these criteria I am a Master Builder. I used to say
it's just a hobby but since I have been paid to do this I guess I am
also now a professional.
Okay, I'm no Master Builder I think that you have to realize that we
are not talking about hundreds of figures or even a line of figures
a Master Builder might just be someone who has the distinction of
being asked to create a figure for someone because this would
indicate that their work is considered good enough to warrant the
asking. Whether building a figure from scratch, repairing someone
else’s work or even, dare I say it, modifying another builders piece
it takes a talent to do so and should be respected. Winchell only
built figures for he himself, is anyone going to arguer the quality
of his work? I doubt it. Clinton Detweiler builds figures from many
different items making a figure out of a pumpkin is no minor a
talent, his work in conversion is indisputably considered fine work.
A Master Builder, not being a legitimate title, is subjective to the
person examining the issue.
Comments by John Dean - June 14,
2007 @3:27pm
-
Very interesting question Dan.
Personally I feel that the term "Master Builder" is thrown around
too loosely. Maybe a list of criteria could be put together.
Speaking for myself, I have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
Comments by Ray Guyll - June 14, 2007
@1:25pm
-
I am in agreement regarding a
master builder. I would consider Gilmer, Guyll, and Hartz to be
three of the top master builders in this country with regards to
building wooden figures.
As for polyurethane or fiberglass, I would say that Semok, Guyll,
and Selberg make the grade for the top three master builders.
Also, I feel that the criteria for building a figure entirely from
scratch, in house, is what it's all about.
In my opinion, the kits that most people are building are a great
hobby, but they are simply that--a hobby. Don't get me wrong, these
kits are a great introduction to the craft, but are no means an
entitlement for such a lofty title of being a master figure builder.
Thanks again for posing such a great question.
Comments by Ken - June 14, 2007
@12:36pm
-
Not sure who I would call a
master builder, but I do believe I can recognize great work. Hartz,
Alfaro, Selberg, Ray G., etc. Those guys are making figures that
will be future collectibles. Just my thoughts!
Comments by Troy L Moss - June
14, 2007 @8:40am
-
The current curator of
Vent Haven has said most ventriloquists build their own. Fred
Russell, the father of modern day ventriloquy, called it a puppet
with a personality, but to me a "spirit puppet".
A master builder is one who is called to create the puppet which
borrows voice and hand to come alive. Frank Marshall has expressed
it such as "that figure really lives" and the like. I had an 18
figure, Little Willie, made by Marshall in 1958, identical in face
to Bob King's "Tiny". I'm not sure about his puppet's legs but know
that mine had one of the little wooden legs purposely attached in
such a way to resemble the polio afflicted leg and face a caricature
of the master builder himself. Marshall referred to Brunard's figure
as his masterpiece. Find one that Marshall created for himself and
that is the true masterpiece, and maybe Brunard's was because bought
by him at a magic shop.
Comments by Lee Dean - June 14, 2007 @8:37am
June 12, 2007
Guest Blog
- John Stallknecht
Attached are photos of 3
figures I made out of plastic wood and use in my act. You may place
them wherever you see fit.
Click on picture
for larger view
Thanks again for
the outstanding job you do for our profession.
John Stallknecht,
California
Comments
2 Comments > > >
-
Cool I like the bulldog.
Comments by Christian Morse - June 15,
2007 @4:11pm
-
I love these characters. I
love your Mortimer Snerd type and the old lady is divine.
Comments by Larry Harris -
ComicVent - June 13, 2007 @7:52pm
June 11, 2007
Marshall
Paint
Dan @6:57am
When a performer goes on
stage to do his act he must be very aware of the light conditions
for his figure. If a figures paint is not done correctly either the
light will bounce and reflect or will wash the color out completely.
This is something that was also found in the early days of
vaudeville.
Marshall clearly states in his catalogue dates 1931 " Lester Formula
is an oil paint that does not have that shiny reflection so annoying
to an audience" but, as Marshall progressed over the next decade and
a half his paint formula changed. He was no longer using just a flat
finish but the paint actually had a texture. Was it house paint with
the following added?
A) pumice stone;
B) sand;
C) plain old table salt;
D) experiment in florescent paint; or,
E) Marshall took with him to grave.
ANSWER: I am not exactly sure.
W.S. Berger said it was pumice on info from Marshall but that may
not be so, more likely sand, salt or other crystal to reflect light.
I can say that it has a feel of almost real skin and on some of my
figures it is more than others.
So does anyone out there have a solid answer as to what Marshall
used to get this great finish in his paint? You know it has stood
the test of time as his paint has been copied or at least others
have tried to copy it but I know of only one person who has been
able to duplicate this finish and he's not telling.
Comments.......
~Dan
P.S.
"Jay Johnson: The Two and Only Wins Theatrical
Event Tony"....
Click Here
Comments
1 Comment > > >
-
In 1955 I was invited to Lee
A. Estes's home in Lexington, KY, to see his McElroys and took my
newly acquired Davenport from Berger, who was upset with Estes
because he had his Kenny and Willy Talk that were supposed to be his
and which he eventually ended up with. Anyway, there I was, young
kid with flat finished Insull, and all that Estes could talk about
was some young girl's Marshall figure she brought with her. I
remember, he dimmed the lights, and said see how it glows, and it
did, almost like had some internal light, while my Insull/Davenport
disappeared in darkness. Berger always said Marshall used pumice,
which is volcanic rock. Now, after 50 years, I think have idea how
Marshall may have done it, otherwise a secret taken to his grave
because there are no vent figures out there that I know of that have
that "glow". Remember how when used to go to the movie show, curtain
came up but light still down, and screen appeared to glow? A
phosphor is a substance that emits light when excited by radiation,
and phosphorous reacts to electrical energy by glowing. It was and
is used on movie theater screens, and now the wide screen TVs, and
why it glows is inside of screen coated with thin layer of
phosphorous. I believe that Marshall sprinkled plain old table salt
onto the figure's fresh paint job. Did not use powder or corn starch
because all that does is give flat although rough finish for light
refraction, but for light reflection salt is a crystal and phosphate
with luminescent, phosphorescent qualities and properties.
Phosphates are plentiful in nature, and even found in fertilizer. He
used either salt, sand, pumice or some other crystal, maybe even the
Marshall orange an experiment with some new photo luminescent
highway paint, the kind that glows in the dark and all of which
contain phosphors. The table salt, sand or pumice application would
account for the sandpapery feel to the touch. I recall in art school
at college lot of visual artists used sand on paintings. But I am
not sure, Marshall may have used saltpeter or Epsom salt for all
that I know. I do know and remember, however, that evening at
Estes's, the dim the lights contest, and that the Marshall figure
did glow.
Comments by Lee Dean - June 11,
2007 @9:15am
June 9, 2007
Contest -
Bob Abdou's Figure Heads
Dan @7:13am
The contest to name the
figure heads owned by Bob Abdou ended with no one really coming too
close so I thought you would all enjoy seeing the correct list of
the makers.
They are as follows from
the top row left to right:
- Johnny Main , Brant
Gilmer, Howie Olsen, 50's Maher , Finis Robinson
- Turner, Foy Brown , Dano
Bratten, Davenport, Foy Brown , Homemade, British
- 70's Maher, Conrad
Hartz, Dan Payes, Jerry Layne , Dan Payes,
- Homemade Mexican,
homemade British, John Osborne, Finis Robinson, Maher Conversion
toy, Turner
I hope you enjoyed the idea of the contest and I want to personally
thank Bob Abdou for sending in the picture for us to use. Dan
Comments.......
~Dan
Comments
0 Comments > > >
June 8, 2007
Tribute To
Ventriloquism
Dan @ 10:47am
I found it hard to believe
that Mr Albano decided to put up the old Tribute To Ventriloquism
again under his own site but it has happened. He initially said it
got to be too much work for him and just took it down. When this
happened, I pleaded with him for almost a month and finally he said
OK to me so I could put it up and create my own site, which I have
done.
For some reason Bob thinks I took the site in a different direction
which I just can't understand. Everything that I have put up on this
site has been about ventriloquism of the past and present. Items
about Frank Marshall, the McElroy brothers, many audio recordings,
videos, pictures, articles, etc…. all in all over 1000 files have
been posted about these great people of the past. I just don't
understand his wanting to take it back but I have decided that
rather than having a contest I will let him do this.
For now, I will still keep
what is on my website. My love is the art of ventriloquism,
the figures of the past and the makers of those old figures.
Good luck Bob.
~Dan
Comments
1 Comment > > >
-
Dan, It's a shame Bob doesn't
agree with what you are doing. Keep up the good work.
Comments by Larry Harris,
ComicVent - June 8, 2007 @9:24pm
June 2, 2007
To Restore
Or Not - Part II
Dan @6:33am
I am really
grateful that people have opinions and do write to me and to others
to let them know what they think. It is the way we all learn and
grow within out community. Even though some may disagree with what
you think or say we all have the right to our opinions and with open
forums such as this we get to let out what we feel.
Having been in the antique business for the better part of 40 years
I must reiterate the fact that if you replace a part with something
that is new, on and old item. such as changing antique glass eyes
and replacing them with new wooden eyes then the value without
question is decreased. I will compare it to an antique banjo clock,
one of the most famous designs in American clock making. The banjo
clock had eglomised tablets, which means the throat and bottom box
on the clock were reverse painted glasses, and if those glasses have
been either repainted or replaced the clock will still look
beautiful and will have some value but not what the original clock
would have had. An original Simons Willard banjo clock is worth in
excess of $25000.00 but if the same clock has repainted glasses or
repainted dial it is now only worth $8000.00.
In the true world of antiques, restored is just NOT worth original.
So now lets sit 2 Frank Marshall figures next to each other that
both have the same functions, slot jaw and side to side eyes. One is
a very fine totally original example never having been touched by a
restorers hand, and sitting right next to him is a pristine fully
restored Marshall figure. The eyes have been replaced, the wig
replaced, the paint redone, the hands repaired ( broken finger), the
controls reworked for someone's comfort. He looks Fantastic. Is he
worth the same kind of money that the original figure is worth
sitting right next to him. The answer is NO and the only one who
would choose the restored over the original is a person who does not
know the antique market.
I did say that if you are a working ventriloquist and your character
is a Marshall then of course you would want to keep him looking
great and therefore would do restorations as needed to keep your
figure pristine. That only makes sense. To a working ventriloquist
the restored figure is a working figure and therefore the antique
value doesn't even come into play. I look at these as works of art
from an era gone by and when I see a wonderful antique figure that
gets changed and destroyed in my eyes it bothers me and so I talk
about it. I am taking nothing away from those that do the work as it
is time consuming and pain staking to do the job right and yes the
end result is a wonderful looking figure but the antique value is
lost. I am an antique lover and the best antique is a true original
bar non. This is fact plain and simple.
My comments on this "To Restore or Not" is taken from my standpoint
of a true collector and not from the performers side. I also said
that I will restore a figure if needed because they deserve to look
their best and you will see those in my collection and I am proud to
give the credit where due for restored jobs well done. But I also
will say that if I have the chance, I will always take a totally
original untouched figure over a restored one because my investment
in that figure is secure in the originality of the piece.
Comments please......
~Dan
Comments
3 Comments > > >
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An antique Marshall, both
functional and aesthetic, is collector's dream I'd say, but to fix
dents and scratches is one thing and fix broke spring or string is
another, or is it? An owner/user dent or scratch would be
indistinguishable from a dent or scratch left by Marshall, so leave
it be. I am not certain about the spring but know for sure that
Marshall in 50s used woven nylon but with nylon strands center, so
to change out a broken Marshall string is mistake, better to glue
broke ends and let it be.
Comments by Lee Dean - June 3, 2007
@1:27pm
-
Hi Dan, my questions to you
now are: If an antique figure is/was restored by its ORIGINAL maker,
will the value decrease or increase?
Number 2: If, for example, a Finis Robinson figure (which is
relatively inexpensive) was restored by Frank Marshall, will its
value increase (since it's already NOT ORIGINAL--but restored by
Marshall)?
Comments by Ony Carcamo - June 3, 2007
@9:46am
If a figure was restored, even by its original
maker, it is restored and that still affects the price. If the
restoration is undetectable but documented as being done by the
maker I would think it would have no affect on the price. Marshall
certainly did repaint and fix mechanics in his own figures that he
sold just as makers do today.
Not too long ago an eBay seller, which I will keep his name
anonymous, was trying to sell a Ken Spencer figure which had been
restored by Frank Marshall. It even had Frank Marshall's card tacked
inside the head, which Frank did most of the time, but it failed to
sell even with all the information. The asking price was not
outrageous but just because it had been done by Marshall did not
make it more valuable. As matter of fact I think had it still had
the original paint by Spencer it would have sold for the asking
price.
I would also like to take this moment to say that all items when new
have no intrinsic or antique value and that includes antique
ventriloquist figures. When Frank Marshall was alive his figures
were of no great value except to those who were performing. Antique
collectors didn't even know who he was nor did they care, except for
W.S. Burger. As with any great work of art it takes time and the
absence of the creator to cause a value. I will make another
analogy. If you have a Van Gough painting that is mint condition
unrestored it is worth millions. If you have a Van Gough that has
had restoration, even though it looks great is the value the same??
Certainly not. As matter of fact in the art world the value drops so
far it is unreal.
I stated in my second addition of my blog that of course I have had
figures restored and if the figure is being used it must be kept in
performance condition. I respect that fully but in no way will a
restored Marshall figure gain in value over that of an all original
figure.
Response from Dan - June 3, 2007 @10:46am
-
Dan, I'm glad you picked a
clock for your comparison because a clock gets it value from
function and ascetics, as does the figure. If the clock were not
working you would not hesitate to add a new cog or weight to make it
work again because what use is a non-functioning clock? So why would
you leave a figure slack jawed or cockeyed on the shelf? Certainly
not just so you could say, "This is an original Marshall figure,"
unless you add "but it doesn’t work anymore."
Vent figures are works of art yes, but they are also tools that we
use to perform our art and if a figure is left non-functional it is
a waist of the artist’s work as they were not meant to be display
pieces. If after Marshall died had Edgar Bergen needed Charlie
painted, and he had Ray Guyll, Alan Semok or Conrad Hartz paint it
are you saying because it is not a Marshall original paint job it is
not as good a piece?
Take Howdy Doody, Alan Semok did a complete repaint of Howdy, he is
still the one and only, actually I think it was two but that neither
here nor there, Howdy Doody. If something does not work like the
eyes and another style is more suited for a function to work how can
it be wrong as a working vent to have them changed. Later if that
vent’s family sells his Marshall and you buy it are you going to
take it apart to ascertain it’s history if it is functioning
properly, of course not and so you may never know it was fixed. You
can’t look at the piece and decide well Marshall would never have
done that because while he strived for function and appearance he
was also known to Duple-carve figures and use what parts he had
handy.
Comments by John Dean, Central
Florida Ventriloquist Association - June 2, 2007 @8:30pm
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